Switching from 100% Distilled to 100% RO

[Ki-ri-n]

I'm sick of lugging Distilled jugs every time I brew so I switched to RO (plus other reasons).

I use brew 'n water as a calculator.
Distilled is set to "zero" but what about my RO water? Can I use the default for RO (in Brew 'n Water) or do I have to enter some other values based on MY RO? I don't have a report on it-should I or can you generally assume what it is? I only really have TDS. It was 420 down to 45 ish after RO. I can also measure Ph, but haven't yet.

 

[SteveH aka shetc]

I believe up to 50 PPM is considered good RO output so use the RO setting.

 

[day_trippr]

If you have test data for the pre-RO source water you may be able to interpolate the product water values.
It would at least get you in a smaller ballpark...

Cheers!

 

[z-bob]

It depends on the rejection rate of your RO filter. Ballpark, I would take whatever you source water is and divide all the numbers by 10, then round up. And don't worry about the pH -- the pH of deionized water (or close to it) is not a useful number.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

If your RO waters TDS is 45, it will have ballpark 36 ppm alkalinity.

 

[Vale71]

90% rejection rate is a bit low if it is a new unit. Are you sure the unit is not mixing RO water with untreated water to increase TDS to a level acceptable to the human digestive system?

 

[ajdelange]

Just assume that the numbers are 0. They should be so small that it doesn't matter.

 

[ajdelange]

If your RO waters TDS is 45, it will have ballpark 36 ppm alkalinity.

36 ppm alkalinity implies 61*36/50 = 43.92 mg/L bicarbonate ion. I know, of course, that the ppm read by a conductivity meter only approximates the actual by weight concentration of the ion but clearly 44 mg out of 45 doesn't leave room for anything to balance the bicarbonate (calcium, sodium or magnesium). So where does this number come from?

 

[Ki-ri-n]

I Rechecked the TDS after it has output almost 25 gallons and it reads 17.

I haven't had the source water tested for its makeup, I'm on a private well.

Safe to assume using the RO default setting?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

36 ppm alkalinity implies 61*36/50 = 43.92 mg/L bicarbonate ion. I know, of course, that the ppm read by a conductivity meter only approximates the actual by weight concentration of the ion but clearly 44 mg out of 45 doesn't leave room for anything to balance the bicarbonate (calcium, sodium or magnesium). So where does this number come from?

AJ, if you recall, I discovered evidence whereby Bicarbonate must be divided by 2 when equated to TDS. Perhaps 5-6 months ago we had an entire thread on this, and you exhibited data and charts in support of my findings.

The appropriate formula is thereby:
TDS= Ca + Mg + Na + Cl + SO4 + Bicarb/2 (plus all of the minor contributors not represented here on both the cation and anion side)

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

For many TDS meters the internal relationship of TDS to conductivity in units of Us/Cm is roughly:

ppm TDS = ~0.64 * Us/Cm

But for many other TDS meters the relationship is roughly:

ppm TDS = 0.5 * Us/Cm

I'm merely speculating below, but it may be appropriate to formulate that:

Conductivity = Ca + Mg + Na + Cl + SO4 + Bicarb (plus all of the highly minor cation and anion contributors)

Where for conductivity the need to divide bicarbonate by 2 is not present. And also where the precise relationship of conductivity to TDS is only being ballparked by TDS meters (with this being why some use 0.64 and others use 0.50, and others use yet a different multiplier). The measured media itself likely determines the multiplier.

 

[mongoose33]

I Rechecked the TDS after it has output almost 25 gallons and it reads 17.

I haven't had the source water tested for its makeup, I'm on a private well.

Safe to assume using the RO default setting?

I'm no expert on RO systems but i have one from Buckeye Hydro. I check TDS whenever I fill containers with RO, and I've found that I need to run the system for a few minutes before the TDS readings settle down.

I always flush it for 30 seconds at the end of a session, and again at the start of a session. I then let the water run for about 5 minutes before drawing a TDS reading.

I don't use a tank; I fill up aquatainers with water instead, so I'm getting the direct output from the system. I ran it last weekend, had initial values around where yours are, but quickly it dropped to 5 ppm reading--which is about where it always ends up, about 5 or 6. Started around 110, then around 45, then down to 5.

What I do is let the system drain into a small plastic cup and test it there. I've learned to just let it go down the drain for the first few minutes until it settles down.

Anyway, make sure your system is flushed, and let it run for a bit before taking readings, and see if that produces better numbers.

 

[Ki-ri-n]

I'm familiar with your setup.
I got mine from Buckeye too.
I have an automatic flush valve but have been filling containers (kettles ) like you. I've been turning the source water off in between "uses" because I don't have a shut off valve on the output line yet. I've been playing around trying to think how I want my end state to be-holding tank, ice makers, etc. So that maybe part of my initial higher number.

 

[day_trippr]

The BH flush valve only operates when the system is producing product water. It does an 18 second flush cycle every hour. But once the system is shutdown whatever briny water is in the membrane housing stays there until the next time the system is operated.

Running the system once a week for a short time will help keep the output TDS closer to optimal performance...

Cheers!

 

[z-bob]

Are you plumbing hard water directly into the RO system, or does it go through a water softener first? I don't have any direct experience with it, but the RO membranes will last a lot longer when fed softened water, even tho' it's loaded with sodium.

 

[MaxStout]

I'm no expert on RO systems but i have one from Buckeye Hydro. I check TDS whenever I fill containers with RO, and I've found that I need to run the system for a few minutes before the TDS readings settle down.

I always flush it for 30 seconds at the end of a session, and again at the start of a session. I then let the water run for about 5 minutes before drawing a TDS reading.

I don't use a tank; I fill up aquatainers with water instead, so I'm getting the direct output from the system. I ran it last weekend, had initial values around where yours are, but quickly it dropped to 5 ppm reading--which is about where it always ends up, about 5 or 6. Started around 110, then around 45, then down to 5.

What I do is let the system drain into a small plastic cup and test it there. I've learned to just let it go down the drain for the first few minutes until it settles down.

Anyway, make sure your system is flushed, and let it run for a bit before taking readings, and see if that produces better numbers.

Another satisfied Buckeye owner here. I do the same, run a couple liters before filling containers so that the water that's been sitting in the filters has passed through. Last time I checked, my TDS was about 5 or 6 ppm, with inlet water around 200. So about 97% rejection. IIRC, Russ suggests using the RO system frequently, to keep it flushed. So even if I don't need RO at the moment, I'll make up a gallon for the coffee maker. In winter I also use RO for the humidifier--no more layer of white powder forming on tabletops in the house from tap water.

 

[Ki-ri-n]

It is hooked up to softened water (had to double check cause I could have swore it wasn't)

It's been a slight learning curve seeing as how I don't know exactly where/how I'm going to use it. If I had a shutoff valve handy for the outlet, I wouldn't have to turn off the input valve.

Now I'm debating hooking it (permenantly under my bar sink-where the brewery is or maybe by my water softner).

 

[mongoose33]

Another satisfied Buckeye owner here. I do the same, run a couple liters before filling containers so that the water that's been sitting in the filters has passed through. Last time I checked, my TDS was about 5 or 6 ppm, with inlet water around 200. So about 97% rejection. IIRC, Russ suggests using the RO system frequently, to keep it flushed. So even if I don't need RO at the moment, I'll make up a gallon for the coffee maker. In winter I also use RO for the humidifier--no more layer of white powder forming on tabletops in the house from tap water.

I've had mine since winter 2016, and it's performed admirably the entire time. I run it every two weeks or so. Once went over 3 weeks without running it, but that was the longest I've gone.

My TDS of the raw water is about 300ppm, so I'm getting about 98% rejection. I'm sure the trick is to just keep using it--and flushing it.

Couple of other tidbits to add: when the water is very cold, the RO system doesn't work as efficiently. Like right now. . Also, Russ told me that the system will work better with softened water, which is what I'm feeding mine.

 

[MaxStout]

I've had mine since winter 2016, and it's performed admirably the entire time. I run it every two weeks or so. Once went over 3 weeks without running it, but that was the longest I've gone.

My TDS of the raw water is about 300ppm, so I'm getting about 98% rejection. I'm sure the trick is to just keep using it--and flushing it.

Couple of other tidbits to add: when the water is very cold, the RO system doesn't work as efficiently. Like right now. . Also, Russ told me that the system will work better with softened water, which is what I'm feeding mine.

Feeding mine soft water, as well. True, in winter when the ground water is colder, I don't get the full output rate. My climate is about the same as yours--ground water is <50F now. Colder water=higher viscosity. Still, with my 75 GPD unit I get 2-2.5 gal per hour in winter. In summer it's close to 3. I have a bunch of those 3 and 5 gal plastic water jugs and fill them right from the output tube.

 

[Ki-ri-n]

How are people getting RO to their kettles?
Filling secondary containers and moving to your brew space?
Dedicated Faucet?
Hose ran to your kettles?
Or????
Looking for a somewhat elegant solution....

 

[mongoose33]

How are people getting RO to their kettles?
Filling secondary containers and moving to your brew space?
Dedicated Faucet?
Hose ran to your kettles?
Or????
Looking for a somewhat elegant solution....

My RO water is collected and stored in an Aquatainer. I put the aquatainer on a table and fill a pitcher that I then pour into my kettle. When I've poured off 3 gallons or so, I'll lift the aquatainer and pour the rest directly into the kettle.

Is it elegant? I don't know, you'll have to decide.

 

[Vale71]

How are people getting RO to their kettles?
Filling secondary containers and moving to your brew space?
Dedicated Faucet?
Hose ran to your kettles?
Or????
Looking for a somewhat elegant solution....

My RO system is in my brewing space. My issue is with getting RO water to the kitchen for other uses. You just need to get your priorities straight...

 

[Ki-ri-n]

My RO can be right by/near my space in the basement.

I thought about installing a "pasta" faucet like over a stove. But as slow as that would fill, probably not worth it. Thinking about installing a 20 gallon tank to have enough RO on hand for brewing & ice makers.

 

[day_trippr]

My RO system is dedicated to brewing, it's only a 50gpd system. I run a 1/4" tube to my kettles and fill the day before...

Cheers!

 

[lump42]

My RO can be right by/near my space in the basement.

I thought about installing a "pasta" faucet like over a stove. But as slow as that would fill, probably not worth it. Thinking about installing a 20 gallon tank to have enough RO on hand for brewing & ice makers.

If you mounted the tank up higher near the ceiling or in the kitchen on the main floor, could you run pex from the tank to a "pasta" faucet? Wouldn't be the lower pressure than a regular faucet, but would still get the aesthetics and convenience. If ran a larger supply line, you could still get a decent flow rate.

 

[alphakry]

I'm looking into getting a system this week to deal with my water issues... the town water here isn't quite ideal:

Am I fighting an uphill battle trying to filter water with values this high?

As I'm using a 1BBL system, I'm looking for a system that'll do at least 100GPD, more likely looking at the 200-300 range just so it doesn't always have to be a task started the day before. Plus with these numbers, I may be looking to get a large 300+ gallon reserve tank to use as the main water in the house to help stop the corrosion of my faucets and such...

 

[Vale71]

Wow, that's a lot of sodium and chloride! Well at least your table salt consumption must be very low...

I'd say you can't go wrong with an RO system, it will give you a good clean slate to start from. And it will also fix the corrosion issues you're experiencing which most likely stem from the very high chloride content.

 

[alphakry]

yea, thanks vale. This water is from the local municipal well, on an tiny island in the ocean - so I expected the high sodium levels from sea water leakage. I always figured that was the cause of the corrosion of parts inside the house, so I'm not sure what a source of high chloride would be.

We generally consider this water not safe to drink, so drinking water is from a company that sells 5 gallon RO jugs - but with the scale up to 1BBL, it just seems sensible to invest in my own RO system so i'm not relying on them for deliveries and such.

 

[alphakry]

Anyone have any suggestions for a specific system? Buckeye seems to come up a lot on the forums. I plan to buy a 100-300GPD system and route the waste water into a giant container for reuse in the washing machine.

 

[Vale71]

Yeah, that report has "salt water contamination" written all over it...
The chloride is just from the sea salt, NaCl. At those levels it's not just bad for beer but unfortunately for stell pipes as well.